Relational Vs. Existential Process
Let me start this post with an example. Let’s have a look at the following clauses.
(a) There is my fiancee on the line.
(b) There is my fiancee.
Both clauses (a) and (b) are similar. Both start with there, both use is (be). Actually, they are different. They represent different experience. Clause (a) is existential clause, while clause (b) is a relational clause. How are they different?
Existential process usually contains a circumstantial element of time or place. In clause (a), on the line is an example of circumstantial element of place. When this element is the Theme, like in:
(c) On the line there is my fiancee.
the Subject there can be omitted, but it will turn up in the tag.
(d) On the line is my fiancee, isn’t there?
Existential clause shows the existence of something, while relational clause shows the attribute (in this case, the location) of something. In other words, the response to clause (a) will be Is there?. This is because, in clause (a) the Subject is there. Meanwhile, the response to clause (b) will be Oh, is she? or Oh, is he? because the subject of clause (b) is my fiancee.
Now, let us compare the following clauses. Which one is relational and which one is existential clause?
- The picture is on the wall.
- On the wall there is a picture of a knight.
- A picture of a night hangs on the wall.
I will be happy to read what you think. Please don’t hesitate to hit the comment button and type your interpretation. For further reference, please consult Halliday 2004, p. 256-258.
October 8th, 2011 at 9:02 am
i’ll try to answer number 2 ( sorry Sir, i just knew the answer of number 2 only until this time T-T )
2. on the wall there is a picture of a knight.
its an exsistential clause, as you gave as the example, we can eliminate the word “there” in the sentence, but it will appear again when we make it into question tag :
- on the wall is a picture of a knight
- on the wall is a picture of a knight, isn’t there ?
the word there is appear bcz it is a Subject.
simply when i see the sentence number 1,
the picture is on the wall,
if we make it into question tag, it will become : the picture is on the wall, isn’t it ?
why it ?bcz the subject in that sentence is the picture, not There as in the existential process, so maybe it belongs to relational process.
October 8th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Bismillahirahmanirrahim.. im sorry if the is a mistake sir…
1.The picture is on the wall: I think it’s a relational process ->attributive circumstantial parallel example with: the fair is on a Tuesday.
The picture: carrier
Is: process
on the wall: attribute
2.on the wall there is a picture of a knight :
on the wall is circumstance
is : process
a picture of a knight : existent: entity
so I think the second one is an existential process. Parallel example : on the wall there was a picture
3. A picture of a night hangs on the wall.
I think it is relational but I am not really sure the reason.
A picture of a night: carrier
Hangs: process
On the wall: circumstantial identifying
October 9th, 2011 at 6:14 am
1. The picture is on the wall: I guess it’s a relational process ->attributive circumstantial parallel. The reasons are because this sentence is reversible and the word “there” that indicates existential process is not available. For example: the fair is on a Tuesday.
The picture: carrier
Is: process
on the wall: attribute
2. on the wall there is a picture of a knight :
on the wall is circumstance
is : process
a picture of a knight : existent: entity
I think the second one is an existential process because it contains a circumstantial element of time or place and the word “there” is available on sentence.
3. A picture of a night hangs on the wall. The reason is similar with question number one.
A picture of a night: carrier
Hangs: process
On the wall: circumstantial attributive
October 10th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
1. The picture is on the wall. ==> relational process
this sentence shows the location of something, so it’s relational process
2. On the wall there is a picture of a knight.==> existential process
“there is” is mark of existential process
3. A picture of a night hangs on the wall. ==> relational process
“on the wall” shows attributive circumstantial
“hangs” can be substituted by “is” to show relational process (Halliday pg.113)
October 10th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
1. The picture is on the wall. ==> relational process
this sentence shows the location of something, so it’s relational process
2. On the wall there is a picture of a knight. ==> existential process
“there is” is mark of existential process
3. A picture of a night hangs on the wall. ==> relational process
“on the wall” shows circumstantial attributive.
To know that it’s relational process we can substitute “hangs ” by “is”. (Halliday pg.113)
October 10th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Sorry for late comment sir
1. The picture is on the wall.
>> Relational Process > attributive circumstantial.
In this case, the sentence has similarity with: The fair is on a Tuesday. (Halliday).
So, it can be:
The picture: carrier
is: process
on the wall: attribute
2. On the wall there is a picture of knight.
>> Existential Process
In this case, it has similarity with: On the wall there was a picture. (Halliday). The word “there” in such clauses has no reprentational function; it is required because of the need for a Subject. (Halliday)
So, I think it will be:
On the wall: circumstance
is: process
a picture of knight: existent: entity
3. A picture of a night hangs on the wall.
It is similar with the sentence in number one >> Relational Process.
a picture of a night: carrier
hangs: process
on the table: circumstantial identifying
Please discuss it more in class, Sir.
Thanks
October 11th, 2011 at 7:02 am
First, I want to share my personal opinion about the keys to solve this transitivity cases, they are:
- think logically about the meaning of the sentence so that we will be able to identify what experience/process really happens here.
- neglect the tenses for a while
- DO NOT memorizing “kinds of verbs usually used” (trust me it’s tricky)
1. The picture is on the wall. (relational process)
Logic <- I know that there is a picture, but I just don’t know which one it is. So, I need an attribute to identify it.
Analysis <- The picture: carrier
is: process
on the wall: attribute
2. On the wall there is a picture of a knight.
Analysis <- on the wall: circumstance
there:
is: process
a picture of a knight: existent
as Mr. AgusDepe explained above that existensial process is usually contains circumstantial element of time or place (on the wall) and the subject “there” can be omitted into On the wall (there) is a picture of a knight.
3. A picture of a knight hangs on the wall.
Can be expanded into: -A picture of a knight (there) hangs on the wall. Or I will put the circumstance at the front.
-On the wall (there) hangs on the wall
Analysis <- Halliday p.130 sometimes other verbs function as Process in an existential clause, e.g. there came a big spider.
let’s compare these first:
2. On the wall (there) is a picture of a knight.
3. On the wall (there) hangs a picture of a knight.
The subject in number 3 can be ommited
Although No.2 uses be (is) and No. 3 uses verb (hangs), but their meaning is the same. So, in my opinion this is an existential process.
October 11th, 2011 at 7:06 am
*Sorry, there are some mistypings on the first comment I sent,Sir*
First, I want to share my personal opinion about the keys to solve this transitivity cases, they are:
- think logically about the meaning of the sentence so that we will be able to identify what experience/process really happens here.
- neglect the tenses for a while
- DO NOT memorizing “kinds of verbs usually used” (trust me it’s tricky)
1. The picture is on the wall. (relational process)
Logic <- I know that there is a picture, but I just don’t know which one it is. So, I need an attribute to identify it.
Analysis <- The picture: carrier
is: process
on the wall: attribute
2. On the wall there is a picture of a knight.
Analysis <- on the wall: circumstance
there:
is: process
a picture of a knight: existent
as Mr. AgusDepe explained above that existensial process is usually contains circumstantial element of time or place (on the wall) and the subject “there” can be omitted into On the wall (there) is a picture of a knight.
3. A picture of a knight hangs on the wall.
Can be expanded into: -A picture of a knight (there) hangs on the wall. Or I will put the circumstance at the front.
-On the wall (there) hangs a picture of a knight.
Analysis <- Halliday p.130 sometimes other verbs function as Process in an existential clause, e.g. there came a big spider.
let’s compare these first:
2. On the wall (there) is a picture of a knight.
3. On the wall (there) hangs a picture of a knight.
The subject in number 3 can be ommited
Although No.2 uses be (is) and No. 3 uses verb (hangs), but their meaning is the same. So, in my opinion this is an existential process.
October 11th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
1.the picture is on the wall —-> relational process
on the wall is a attribute that identifying the picture.
the picture = carrier
is = process
on the wall = attribute
2.on the wall there is a picture of knight —–> existential process
this sentence show the existential of the picture
it is same as Mr. Riyadi’s example ‘there is a book on the table’. On the wall there is a picture of knight = there is a picture of knight on the wall
on the wall = circumstance
there
is = process
a picture of knight = existent
3.a picture of night hangs on the wall
I’m not sure it is relational or existential…
it could be existential because it shows the existent of the picture of night. This sentence gives information that there is a picture of night hanging on the wall.
a picture of night = existent
hangs = process
on the wall = circumstance
please discuss it on the class sir,..
October 11th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
1. The picture is on the wall -> relational process: attributive circumstantial
analysis: – The picture (carrier)
– is (process)
– on the wall (attribute), “ascribed to some entity -of place” (based on Halliday 1985 pg 113)
2. On the wall there is a picture of a knight -> existential process
analysis: – on the wall (circumstantial element)
– there (has no representational function)
– is (process)
– a picture of a knight (existent: entity)
(based on Halliday 1985 pg 130-131)
3. A picture of a knight hangs on the wall -> existential process
analysis: the circumstantial element is thematic so the word “there” is omitted, “on the wall (there) hangs a picture of a knight” -> Halliday 1985 pg 130: Sometimes other verbs function as process in an existential clause
– a picture of a knight (existent: entity)
– hangs (process)
– on the wall (circumstance)
(based on Halliday 1985 pg 130-131)